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Thread: diffing in to the Crossman M4-177

  1. #11
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    JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE with a RCMP Firearms tech.

    "Absolutely not, the crosman m4-117 modded to go over 500fps would be a NON-restricted Firearm"
    The logic here is any firearm that resembles an AR doesn't become restricted because of design features that make it LOOK like one. It would have to be built as an operating AR-15, gas line, etc...

    BAM

  2. #12
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Achmell

    I understand that you are very keen on the subject of the M4-177.

    But posting the same thing in three threads is spamming and that's not appreciated by anyone.
    Sean

  3. #13
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Further......"I talked to this guy on the phone" means nothing in court.

    This is published....reference here http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...me_air-eng.htm

    High-powered air rifles are generally classified as non-restricted firearms. However, the classification depends on the exact design of the air gun. Air rifles manufactured to resemble an assault rifle could be non-restricted, restricted or prohibited depending on the exact model imitated. High-powered air rifles would also be prohibited firearms if fully automatic or if they have a sawed-off barrel. They could also be restricted firearms if they have a folding stock that reduces the overall length to less than 660mm.
    Sean

  4. #14
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    I apologize for the spamming, did not mean to.

    But I called the Canadian Firearms Program, talked to an RCMP Gun tech in Ottawa, and discussed this air gun, as well as many .22's out there that resemble, but do not operate as an AR-15 does.

    I am aware of that passage you quoted. I talked to the people who make/enforce our firearm laws and they informed me that the M4-117 if modded to go over 500fps, would NOT be considered a Restricted rifle. Because it is a simple plastic shell surrounding a multi-pump air rifle.

    Yes I am very keen on this subject, i encourage everyone to do whatever they wish with this information. Go ahead and call the CFP yourselves if you want.

    Again, sorry for the spamming, guess i got a little excited.

  5. #15
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Getting 'excited' doesn't get anyone anywhere terribly quickly or efficiently.

    I verified earlier today with the CFC that there was quite a bit of confusion on the M4-177 when it was coming to market- many people within the RCMP wanted to call it "Restricted" and initially it was- then someone decided to do a detailed analysis and it was apparently re-determined to be "non-restricted". Perhaps a bit more consistency would help avoid such confusion for everyone in future.

    The thing to keep in mind in Canada is that until something is challenged in a court, the Legislated holder of an enforcement policy can make up the regulations for enforcement any way they like. Just stating something- i.e. "that isn't illegal" or what-not, is fairly irrelevant unless you want to be the one to spend time in court.
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


  6. #16
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    I see,
    yeah we live in a ass-backwards country as far as gun control goes. Just look at how any AR-15 .22 is restricted, yet colt and ruger have tactical .22's that do the exact same thing, yet are non restricted...

    Getting back to the heart of this thread,
    Ive also removed that washer, haven't replaced it with anything and am pleased with the seemingly increased performance in my airgun.

  7. #17
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    What you need is a flat-top piston kit: http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/...ston-kit-p-383
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


  8. #18
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    Put the washer back in and actually haven't noticed a change. Didn't even need to sight it in again, I'm shooting from 35 meters and still hitting cans.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by achmell View Post
    Put the washer back in and actually haven't noticed a change. Didn't even need to sight it in again, I'm shooting from 35 meters and still hitting cans.
    does not make sense. That washer restricts flow big time. Mine lost lots of "punch" when I put it back in.

  10. #20
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    Well either way I had to return the airgun to Canadian Tire as the stock broke off. Got the replacement M4-177 and upon initial breakdown, noticed there is NO washer restricting airflow between compression chamber and breech. I taken the comp. chamber apart too, and it looks like they've modified it to reduce the pressure to the breech. So it looks like i have an "Un-modifiable" M4-177. Must be a "second generation" m4-177

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