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Thread: My Version of the Millenium Pumper

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  1. #1
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    My Version of the Millenium Pumper

    A short while ago I built a .25 cal Carbine Pumper based on a shortened Disco Tube, the linkage from a Benji 392, and an MRod barrel.... While working on it, I started collecting ideas and parts for a rifle version using a full length Disco tube and a .25 cal choked Lothar Walther barrel.... Instead of having an auxilliary reservoir made from a 16 gr. CO2 bulb under the main tube, this gun would have an internal reservoir and a separate check valve.... After about a week in the shop, here are the main internal parts....



    The pump linkage is an extended Billet linkage from Mac1 Airguns.... It is stronger, and 3" longer than stock, although it maintains the same 7.6" stroke, giving a swept volume in the Disco tube of 54 cc.... I wanted to mount the pivot pin as far forward as possible, so instead of shortening the Disco tube I made a threaded end plug to help spread the end load of the pivot pin into the tube.... The smaller stub on the front will mount a barrel band.... The piston is the same as the one I made for the Carbine.... Immediately behind that is a check valve, sealed both sides with O-rings, mounted into two new holes in the Disco tube and secured with high tensile 8-32 low profile SHCSs.... There is a 2.5" long, full diameter, (18cc) air chamber between the check valve and the extended front end on the valve.... The valve extension is 3/8" ID for most of its length, providing additional volume, and enough wall thickness to mount the gauge and a male Foster fitting on the left side just behind the gauge location.... That will enable the gun to be filled from a tank or stirrup pump, both easier than the onboard pump, whose main purpose is for topping up in the field.... Also shown is an MRod trigger with Challenger trigger guard.... Everything will be mounted in a inletted Boyd's Blaster stock from Norm at Discos-R-Us in Nutmeg laminate....



    In the second photo are details of some of the parts.... The front plug was pretty tricky to machine.... I had to turn and thread it, mount it in the already slotted Disco tube, and then machine the slot and drill the pivot hole in the proper orientation.... It worked out beautifully, and the tube is full wall thickness at the pin location.... Below that is the check valve.... It is a simple aluminum housing, drilled through, and carrying a shortened check valve pin from a male Foster fitting, retained by a piano wire pin.... I tried one in my Carbine and it functioned perfectly, and the thin pin diameter left room for the screws on both sides.... Beside the check valve is the valve poppet and spring.... You can see how I have streamlined the head of the poppet, and narrowed the stem behind it.... The front of the valve spring has been expanded to 9/32" ID, to match the spring seat ID in the extended valve front end, for additional flow.... The brass part is a custom gauge mount I made from brass pipe fittings.... I used a 1/8" male to 3/8" female adapter and a 3/8" male to 1/8" female, then bored them out for additional volume, and threaded them together and sealed it with solder.... The Blaster stock is plenty deep enough for that assembly, and it added over 3 cc more volume to the valve.... The total volume is now 28.5 cc, slightly bigger than the Carbine was.... The Disco valve has been bored out inside to 0.62" ID, the throat drilled to 0.25", and the exhaust port milled out to 0.203" on a 20 degree angle.... It still needs a little TLC with a Dremel to round and smooth the inside corner.... The porting is 16% larger in area than what I used in the Carbine.... That combined with the longer barrel and slightly larger valve volume should gain a bit of velocity.... I'm hoping for about 10% higher FPE in this version at the same pressures.... With the additional leverage of the extended linkage, the effort should be the same at about 1800 psi as it was at 1500 in the Carbine.... so I have little doubt the peak power of this rifle will be higher....

    This project resulted from my joining the Green Forum because of interest in their "Millenium Pumper" project, the concept of which was to bring MSPs into the 21st Century.... There was no concensus of opinion over what it should be like, so I undertook this project as my own interpretation of what could be done easily, starting with mostly Crosman parts and adding a few custom bits into the mix.... There are lots of other interpretations of the idea possible.... this just represents mine....

    Bob
    Last edited by rsterne; Dec 01 2012 at 06:00 PM.
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  2. #2
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    What? No consensus at the Green forum? There's a shocker!

    What does Mac1 charge for the longer linkage?

  3. #3
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    I got the main fitting of the stock done today.... When I ordered the Boyd's Blaster stock from Norm at Discos-R-Us I wasn't sure what I was going to use it for, so I had it inletted for a Disco without gauge.... I had to modify the inletting slightly for the MRod trigger, and I used a 1" Forstner bit to drill the gauge hole.... I also had to grind a small groove in the top left side to accomodate the Foster QD fitting.... The Challenger trigger guard came too close to my fingers on the pistol grip, so I had to shorten it a bit.... Fortunately, it doesn't have a "back end" so that wasn't a problem.... I've cut off the forearm off to make the pump handle, but haven't cut the groove yet for the pump linkage....



    The other thing on today's agenda was to make the barrel bands.... The front one (right in the photo) fits on the 5/8" stub on the front of the front pivot block, so the outside of the band is the same diameter as the OD of the main tube.... The rear barrel band is designed to sit immediately in front of the gauge, and clamp the front of the breech in place for extra stability....



    The Crosman steel breech's main weakness is the 4-48 screw in the loading port.... There is nothing forward of that to hold the breech and barrel in place.... I would have had the band right up against the front of the breech, but because of my oversized gauge mount I had to have a 1/4" gap between the band and the breech.... The band is made in two parts, the lower one will stay on the main tube, located with a set screw.... The upper half will sit on the barrel, just in front of the breech.... You remove the two clamping screws to remove the barrel and breech from the gun.... When you replace the breech and tighten the screws, it pulls down on the barrel, clamping the front of the breech securely against the main tube.... The top of the barrel band is flush with the top of the breech....

    The only major jobs left are to cut the slot in the forearm for the pump linkage and make the .25 cal extended probe bolt.... With a little luck I'll get those done tomorrow and then I can give the stock a final sanding and start finishing it with Watco Danish Oil.... This thing isn't far from initial testing.... I just need Lloyd's MRod trigger shim....

    Sean, I use a 3/16" mill straight in, followed by a 5/16" mill for the transfer port flat.... I then countersink the barrel port to the (slightly larger) diameter of the transfer port.... I move the barrel forward slightly using the crossfeed and run the mill in level with the back of the round countersink mark.... I then rotate the milling attachment to about 35-40* (it stays at the same height, so no additional setup there).... I then move the crossfeed so that the back of the mill is just tickling the back of the port and mill in on an angle forward.... The length of the transfer port ends up the diameter of the mill at the angle I set it at, at the TP flat.... and longer than that inside the bore because of the angle.... It seems to work pretty good, giving a bigger port area than you can achieve with a round port of 75% of the bore diameter.... Similar to what we discussed for the .224 cal Bench Rest rifle.... BTW, that reminds me.... *grin*....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  4. #4
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsterne View Post

    Sean, I use a 3/16" mill straight in, followed by a 5/16" mill for the transfer port flat.... I then countersink the barrel port to the (slightly larger) diameter of the transfer port.... I move the barrel forward slightly using the crossfeed and run the mill in level with the back of the round countersink mark.... I then rotate the milling attachment to about 35-40* (it stays at the same height, so no additional setup there).... I then move the crossfeed so that the back of the mill is just tickling the back of the port and mill in on an angle forward.... The length of the transfer port ends up the diameter of the mill at the angle I set it at, at the TP flat.... and longer than that inside the bore because of the angle.... It seems to work pretty good, giving a bigger port area than you can achieve with a round port of 75% of the bore diameter.... Similar to what we discussed for the .224 cal Bench Rest rifle.... BTW, that reminds me.... *grin*....
    Bob
    Yup you guessed it...that's exactly what I was driving at.
    My mill is NOT user friendly to rotate the head. And I've been waiting for the Mrs...and now the wee miss to leave me alone for the 4 or 5 hours I need to figure out that tricky setup. Other than that they have been completely finished for weeks.
    Sean

  5. #5
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    If you look at the graph in the other thread I think it will be clearer....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  6. #6
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Limiting the lift doesn't explain for me why the velocity is going down as the preload increases.
    Sean

  7. #7
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    He charges $60 plus shipping for the Billet lever in standard length and $5 extra for the 3" longer unit, IIRC.... It comes with the pins (piston pin is larger than stock) and a high strength steel link lever riveted in place.... You MUST use it with an adjustable piston (he makes those too, no idea how much, I made my own) as there is no spring to hold the linkage up and it must rock over center to lock in the up position....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  8. #8
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Very interesting Bob

    Any chance of a detail shot on that check valve? I like the idea of a self contained UBER MSP.

    I remember some SSP's having a funky vario cam system right at the hinge point so that the handle moved very little during the first 50% of the stroke. I'd like to find some drawings on that and maybe do some experimenting
    Sean

  9. #9
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    You mean there is actually a job that is EASIER on a millnig attachment on a lathe?.... If you can't rotate the head, can you rotate the vise the barrel is in?.... That's basically what I'm doing....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  10. #10
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    My version of the Millenium Pumper is finally finished.... It uses a .25 cal Lothar Walther barrel, a Disco main tube, and a Mac1 extended Billet linkage, and weighs 7.25 lbs. without the scope, which is a Leapers 4-16 x 40 AO MilDot.... Here's what it looks like....



    The Boyd's Blaster thumbhole stock has a swell in the forearm right where you grip it for pumping, and was a perfect choice.... The pump stroke is long, but significantly easier at 1800 psi than the Carbine was at 1500.... I have pumped the gun by hand to 2000 psi, and I would consider that a safe upper limit.... Over 60 FPE with EunJins should be pretty easy at that pressure....



    The pump actually works better than the one in the Carbine did, filling the 28.5 cc valve faster than the Carbine did its 27 cc valve.... It takes 80 pumps to fill to 1800 psi from empty.... The second graph shows the number of pumps to refill after each shot when the gun is set up for three shots of 40 FPE.... This gun actually takes fewer pumps while producing 40 FPE per shot than the Carbine did at 30 FPE per shot....



    Filling to 1800 psi gives a choice of three different tunes just by resetting the RVA.... I can get 1 shot at 950 fps (51 FPE), 2 shots at 898 fps (45.4 FPE), or 3 shots at an average of 846 fps (40.4 FPE) within 30 fps (less than a 4% ES).... While the gun can be pumped to 2000 psi, I feel that these three settings give the best balance between power and pumping....



    The graph above shows the velocity of the "next" shot in each string.... You can see that the 4th shot when the gun is set up for three shots of 40 FPE is still about 30 FPE.... plenty good enough for a close follow-up or a coup de gras.... I'm extremely pleased with the way this project turned out.... It surpassed all my expectations, and performs better than I could have ever dreamed or hoped for....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

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