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Thread: Hammer Bounce Sound Traces

  1. #1
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Hammer Bounce Sound Traces

    I spent some time the past couple of days seeing if I could record the signature of the muzzle blast and see if I could find evidence of hammer bounce.... I tried a series of shots with my 2560 HPA, and here are the results.... The time period shown is 0.1 sec (100 mS)....



    I recorded the shot using a cheap microphone and an audio editing program called Audacity, and the result was a confusing mass of sound traces.... I tried various filters, and discovered that by using a low pass filter set at 89 Hz (a default) I got the above traces.... The resonant frequency is, in theory, about 33 Hz. for the hammer in my gun, so the filter was set high enough to capture that but eliminate all the "noise" of the blast.... Again, in theory, the 1/2 period that the hammer spends clear of the valve stem (based on it's weight and the spring rate) is theoretically about 15 mS (or less because of slight preload).... I did a recording of the hammer only (no air pressure) and the period was about 19 mS.... With air in the valve it should be shorter....

    I can tell you that when fired, this gun sounds like the hammer is bouncing below 1000 psi, no question.... It MAY be bouncing at 1200 psi, judging by the sound, but it was hard to tell.... Above that, I can't hear any bounce.... I have no idea if the above traces can be considered reliable or not, although I did two of each and they were pretty consistent.... but it sure looks to me like there is hammer bounce occurring at the lower two pressures, not at the higher two pressures, and a transition is occuring at 1400 psi.... Incidently, the way the hammer preload is currently adjusted, the velocity peaks at between 1500-1600 psi at just over 950 fps....

    This data is wide open to interpretation.... and I'm just offering my opinion of what I see in the traces....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  2. #2
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Your 'wave' is also riding up again at 1600psi- but is down at 1400psi and 1800psi- is it possible something else is being recorded?
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


  3. #3
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    IMO that slight rise 3/4 of the way through the 1600 psi trace must be a reflection or something.... It's too late to be a bounce, it's about 40 mS after the initial pulse....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  4. #4
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    I wonder if you would get a cleaner trace by recording back at the valve with the muzzle sticking out of a cardboard box filled with blankets or pillows.
    Sean

  5. #5
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    I'm sure there are a thousand ways to improve the pickup and the flitering process.... I also posted this on the Green, promptly got told by all the "Intellectuals" over there how many things I did wrong, and basically that it was GIGO.... I spent (wasted) a couple of day on this, that would have more productively been spent in the shop, making chips and assembling the pieces left over into airguns....

    Perhaps I have shown that there MAY be useful information that can be obtained this way.... I'm not going to start making special valve stems with sensors in them to detect valve opening events or any of the other "brilliant" ideas suggested by those who love to criticize and tell you what you've done wrong but (likely) haven't the skills to build anything more complicated than a reassembled 2240....

    Your idea, Sean, probably has more merit than any of the (overly) complicated "pipe dreams" suggested over there.... I was able to use the microphone to detect the sound of (just) the hammer bouncing back and forth with no air in the gun, so removing the muzzle blast completely and just listening to the machanicals would be ideal.... However, I won't be doing it....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  6. #6
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Alot of amateur "scientists" seem to forget the KISS principle and over-scientificate things (yes, I made that term up years ago) so they think that they appear to be intelligent.

  7. #7
    Senior Member sholo's Avatar
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    "Over-scientificate"?

    Oh, I'm gonna have to remember that one! Maybe use it on the boss today...

    Todd
    Todd

    Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweatty things!

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