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Thread: Best value for non-pal PCP

  1. #1
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    Best value for non-pal PCP

    Hi Guys,

    I'm looking to get into some target shooting and general plinking action with a PCP. I'm not looking to spend too much money and it seems as though our non-PAL low budget options are pretty limited in Canada. I already have an old breakbarrel .177 and a multipump BB gun but they are just not very accurate and I didn't think it would be worth spending much on trying to bring them up to par. I'm thinking it might be best if I just skip the whole CO2 thing and go right to PCP so I don't end up with a closet full of airguns I never use.

    I will probably spend the $700-1000 on a nice retail PCP rifle eventually but to get started I'll be doing this with my kids so I'm thinking something a little smaller might be a better way for us to get started.

    The Crosman 1701 with a longer barrel and the custom shoulder stock would be about nice fit... I also saw the Crosman 2250 custom carbine which I thought was beautiful but it doesn't seems we can get these nice airguns in Canada.

    I've been search around the net for weeks and finally ended up on this forum after reading about several that have modified their CO2 guns to run under HPA. That got me to thinking, and some confusion, that it might be a good plan to start with these stock components:
    - Crosman 2240 ($90)
    - Crosman 18" barrel ($25)
    - Crosman 2" muzzle break with sight pin ($25)
    - Crosman Custom Shoulder Stock ($14)

    Then I could add
    - hipac C2240bfa (~$60)
    - ONE 4" extender. (~$10)
    - a few other misc adapters etc

    Grand Total: well under $300. Of course I would still need a hand pump and some pellets.

    I hope someone could help me with this project/idea in general, perhaps offer some good ideas or even tell me if there is perhaps a better direction and point me in the appropriate resources if this already been discussed somewhere else (I hope I'm wasting peoples time with all these silly questions). Alternatively, I'm sure some of you here have been through this before and I hope you might help me understand how I might get a nice small PCP carbine without breaking the 500fps limit or the bank.

    Eventually I'll get myself a CZ200T or even the HW-100T but that is quite a bit of money to get started and I believe those rifles just wouldn't be the best fit the kids or my wallet at this stage.

    Kind regards,
    Josh
    Last edited by justacanuck; Oct 26 2012 at 06:53 PM. Reason: added clarity

  2. #2
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    additional information

    I just measured my youngest shooter..... the length of pull should be 12" max. Perhaps the 1399 custom stock is too long/large?

  3. #3
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    It's actually very long, nearly 16".... It isn't too hard to shorten it, however, with a little creativity....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

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    Hi Bob,

    Thank you for confirming my suspicion about the crosman stock.

    I've been thinking I might purchase the Crosman stock and just use it as a template to build my own adjustable stock out of wood. In my imagination I'm thinking a cross between this:
    new_6.gif
    and this:
    Slavia CZ 200 T stock.jpg

    I'm so glad you replied... I've been reading a bunch of threads you started, on a few sites. Your builds are very impressive and part of my inspiration.

    I would like to build something very similar to your 2240. Does the rest of my plan seem workable? I'm a little confused about the finer details of how to put this all together and I hope you might it in your heart to help me.
    • Is the "hi-pac" device what you used?
    • The bottle I'm thinking of is the HPA Tank, 13ci/3000psi Regulated at 850psi output from scopesandammo. Is that the type bottle you used and how do I connect a bottle to to the Hi-pac and can it be connected?
    • What other parts will I need to get this thing regulated down to shoot a consistent 495fps?
    • As it pertains to Canadian law, is my creation going to be considered a air-rile or a air-pistol?
    • If indeed it will be considered a rifle, it would be nice to be able to crank it up to 800fps when desireable. Is this RVA device the appropriate method to achieve this adjust-ability and where can that be sourced?

    I don't really have the facilities/abilities to manufacture parts myself so I really appreciate any directions/assistance you might be willing to provide or perhaps you have already written about this and could point me in the right direction or to an appropriate source for the parts I will need.

    very sincerely,
    Josh

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by justacanuck View Post
    or perhaps you have already written about this and could point me in the right direction or to an appropriate source for the parts I will need.
    I think I found some answers to many of my questions already answered:
    http://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/topic33946.html

  6. #6
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    I've never used a HiPac....

    I like the 13 CI tank and regulator.... for under 500 fps you need to turn it down to ~650 psi, depending on barrel length....

    Depends on how you want to do it.... Remote tank, or mounted on the gun?....

    Anything using a 2240 tube will always be a pistol, regardless of barrel length or if you put a stock on it....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsterne View Post
    I've never used a HiPac... I like the 13 CI tank and regulator.... for under 500 fps you need to turn it down to ~650 psi, depending on barrel length....
    Good to know. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsterne View Post
    Depends on how you want to do it.... Remote tank, or mounted on the gun?....
    I was thinking that I would/should have the tank mounted on the gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by rsterne View Post
    Anything using a 2240 tube will always be a pistol, regardless of barrel length or if you put a stock on it....
    I just figured that out from your comments on another thread... I'm concerned that I could accidentally put my pistol into Restricted status too easily with the longer barrel and a little too much pressure.

    My goals are:
    • 1. short (as little as 12" line of pull)
    • 2. lighter than average PCP rifle (I was hoping as light as 4 pounds)
    • 3. Rifle/carbine style (ie. shorter overall length and ... avoid Restricted status if I decide to bump up power later)
    • 4. Non Pal (i.e. less trouble/quieter/more shots per fill)
    • 5. refillable with hand pump (because a. pumping is cheaper and b. breakbarrel or multipump are too hard for the youngsters)
    • 6. super affordable (i.e. $200-300 purchase price but this is not as important goal as cheap to operate henceforth desire to pursue refillable and avoid CO2)

    If I can achieve those goals with this build I'll be happy. Please let me know if you might recommend a different direction altogether if something else might be a better option to achieve my goals. Maybe I should be rethinking the whole idea and start with the QB78 or AR2078 rifle instead. I could cut down the stock and maybe even get a shorter barrel to achieve the goals; I'll have to e-mail Dan (aka sniper?) and see if he can sell me a package with the QB78 and everything I need to make it HPA. I'm OK doing some simple hand tool work, I just don't have machining facilities nor faculties :-) and I don't want to spend hours and hours searching for little specialty/hard to find parts to put it all together.

    For my next purchase I will change #4 to "more accurate" and add #5 "10 shot repeater" and let my budget go to $500-700 in which case I'll probably purchase the AT44 or the CX200T. Hopefully I can use the same hand pump. :-)

    I really appreciate your time and completely respect any/all advice and comments you might offer.

    Josh
    Last edited by justacanuck; Oct 29 2012 at 11:14 PM. Reason: more clarity/detail

  8. #8
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    Well, if you want to go a bit higher end first shot but still want small and light may I suggest the Brocock Contour? It comes in .177, .22, PAL and non PAL, and single and 6 shot versions. I have the Concept 6 shot model in .22 non PAL and it is a dream to shoot. Very accurate and even shot strings. I think it also has a sliding butpad that could be replaced with a standard one to reduce the LOP to around 12-12.5"

    http://www.specialtyshootingsportsou...7-495-fps.html

  9. #9
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    I think you should perhaps take a second look at CO2.... You can buy a LOT of CO2 for the price of converting a 2240 to CO2, and it's easy for the kids to use.... A pump is NOT a good idea for kids, they simply aren't heavy enough to pump to 2000 psi, let alone 3000, which is the fill pressure on a 13 CI tank.... AirGunEric had most of the parts (if not all) to make a non-PAL version of the 2240 running on HPA.... perhaps PM him and inquire.... It would be just what you are talking about building.... I know because I designed it.... However, the comments about filling still apply as it uses that 13 CI 3000 psi tank.... I would suggest you either plan on filling the tank yourself or getting it filled at a paintball shop, or get your own SCUBA tank to fill from.... By the time you add up all that, CO2 looks pretty inexpensive.... and you can make it even cheaper....

    Convert the 2240 to .177 with a 10" barrel from a 1377.... Clip a few coils off the hammer spring to keep it under 500 fps.... You will get over 100 shots per CO2 cartridge, and because the .177 pellets tend to be cheaper you can shoot it cheaper than ANY .22 cal, even a springer.... You can buy CO2 in boxes of 50 at much lower cost, again from AirGunEric.... The only drawback is that if you are shooting in low temperatures you will lose a bit of performance.... Even that can be worked around if you have a Chrony to set the gun up.... With the right hammer spring preload you can get the valve to "self-regulate" the way a PCP does over a wide range of temperatures.... I have a 1750 (.177 cal 2250 carbine) with an 18" barrel that is just under 500 fps and gets ~130 shots per CO2 and the velocity is consistent from 40*F to about 80*F.... and it's CHEAP to shoot....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by averagejoe View Post
    Well, if you want to go a bit higher end first shot but still want small and light may I suggest the Brocock Contour? It comes in .177, .22, PAL and non PAL, and single and 6 shot versions. I have the Concept 6 shot model in .22 non PAL and it is a dream to shoot. Very accurate and even shot strings. I think it also has a sliding butpad that could be replaced with a standard one to reduce the LOP to around 12-12.5"

    http://www.specialtyshootingsportsou...7-495-fps.html
    That is nice! I never heard of that one before. It is a little more expensive than I was hoping for but certainly an option that deserves serious consideration.

    Thanks for the link.

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