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Thread: Safe or Silly?

  1. #1
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Safe or Silly?

    Here is a photo (from the Green Forum) of a gauge fitting soldered to the side of a Benji 39X pumper tube with soft solder....



    I think this is a ridiculously dangerous practice.... If the joint is perfect, maybe.... but IMO too many variables....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  2. #2
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Not likely the safest way of doing things- especially, if, as you mention, the joint is not perfect. I don't know what the shear strength of soft solder is/isn't- but when one of it's most common uses is holding <70psi copper pipe together, I think 2000+ psi is a bit of a risk.

    Mind you, Sheridan and Benjamin soldered some parts in their older rifles- but I recall this may only have been barrels to tubes and "contained" parts in/on valves- not things with any real potential to blow out.

    Other than deformation of the tube, perhaps using a steel gauge fitting and tube and welding would be a better idea- but would also need to be a near-perfect weld to ensure no leaks.
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


  3. #3
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Tensile of lead-tin solder runs 4400-6700 psi depending on the alloy.... If you use 6000 psi, and assuming the solder joint is the same area as the end of the gauge, you would have a 4:1 safety margin at 1500 psi (pretty much the max for a Benji).... However, that assumes a perfect joint, no cracks or voids (which could pressurize), and that the adhesion of the solder to the brass is also 6000 psi.... If the cracks/voids fill with HPA, not only does the area of solder decrease, but he pressurized area increases.... I sure wouldn't trust it....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  4. #4
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    could it be silver solder? if it is well that is very strong. but how strong? nothing beats my mig or a tig welder.
    Benjamin Discovery Mac1 modded <----- Ya Baby the new toy
    Webly Alecto .177
    QB79- with lots and lots of mods HPA <------ Go too AirGun for FT

  5. #5
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Impossible, the Benji's are soft soldered together (eg barrel to main tube)....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  6. #6
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    Silver is a soft welding it's done with a small torch at low to med heat.
    but I'm sure it's no what they use on the benji. since it's very expensive.
    Benjamin Discovery Mac1 modded <----- Ya Baby the new toy
    Webly Alecto .177
    QB79- with lots and lots of mods HPA <------ Go too AirGun for FT

  7. #7
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    I've done silver (ie hard) soldering.... yes, it's "low heat" (as in lower than brazing), but a LOT hotter than what is required for lead/tin solder.... There is no question if he tried to silver solder that nut on he would have melted the solder on the barrel just 1/2" away.... Besides, he stated it was soft solder....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  8. #8
    Moderator poil27's Avatar
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    soft solder include anay brasing material. by the look of it it is not silver and it's not silfos it realy look like lead/tin and it is not silly it's CRASY DANGEROUS .

    silver will look yelowish, silfos will be black and brass/bronze will look goldish .

    i would have tig welded this.

  9. #9
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    i would have tig welded this.
    Brass to brass?.... I didn't know that was done.... If so, great idea.... providing you really know what you're doing.... I wouldn't weld it even if it were steel to steel, my skills are not good enough....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  10. #10
    Moderator poil27's Avatar
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    brass to brass with a tig is as easy as welding steel it needs a lot of head like aluminium but it's welded with toriated electrode sharpen to a fine point on a streight polarity like steel it's the best of both world . i prefere pure argon but argon helium mix is the way to go there you will need to purge the tube to prevent incurtion on the revese (or inside the tube). i normaly use part of my plate as welding rod it's exactly the same aloy so no trouble in fusing but if need be i wil use uncotaded silicone bronze or copper chromium aloy

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