anyone who works at scopesandammo.com post here

[Hammer Sandwich]

... How do we encourage asking good questions of the new and impatient youth who just bought their first $60 ait gun????????

Maybe....don't step on your dick, and complain if the answers supplied don't suit you?


I'm still a noob to the game, and I've gotten a lot of paitence, and good advice from this forum and the other one.

That being said, anything I can't find on the forum(s) is most likely floatin' around these intardwebs somewhere....but if it's not, I'll start a thread.
It does take a little bit of research and reading though, and a lot of folks don't seem to understand that anymore.

[Poor-man Plinker]

I'm still a noob to the game, and I've gotten a lot of paitence, and good advice from this forum and the other one.

Personally, I aint the sharpest tool in the shed. However, I somehow do not mind helping the cognitively challanged. Probably because I are one. Why else would I have spent 15 years teaching in Special Education??? There is a new breed of gun users who want everything instantly and without effort. You may never see them as producing the types of threads the Bob and Sean are, but, I still see them as valuable.

So I invite you, Hammer, and anyone else who is following this pissy thread to sent those stepping on their big dicks to PM me and I will be happy to help them out as best I can. Save you the frustration, and maybe lower the blood pressure of many "members." I generally check in and read old threads between 4:00 and 7:00 AM forum time.

As for you Pharaoh007 I will send you a PM and hopefully we have not lost you as a "junior" and you know how forums function, I am still trying to figure it out................................

[Hammer Sandwich]

Personally, I aint the sharpest tool in the shed. However, I somehow do not mind helping the cognitively challanged. Probably because I are one.......

lol

......There is a new breed of gun users who want everything instantly and without effort. You may never see them as producing the types of threads the Bob and Sean are, but, I still see them as valuable......

Definitely agree.

[SeanMP]

I couldn't agree more with Poor Man

Officially, at least in my mind, there are no dumb questions. Every question is legitimate and often the simplest ones will spark an incredible debate among the more experienced and some great kernel of wisdom will reveal itself.
Yes the OP was simply bad form, plain and simple, but that should be viewed separately from any question that was asked. Agreed that simple research could prevent a lot of repetitiveness but lets be honest most people just are not built that way.
Very few people fully understand what a busy guy our host is. This isn't the only forum he hosts, S&A isn't the only store he runs and none of them are his primary job. On top of that I think he spends 50% of his free time chasing around a machinist who also mildly over worked and a bit of a prima donna

So my advice is ask your questions here. Here you have the advantage of a collective knowledge and some of the individuals in the collective have enough personal knowledge to make the Cardew Bros. look like amateurs. Then be satisfied with the answers you get or devote a substantial part of your life to doing your own experiments.

[AirGunEric]

I think the one thing that perhaps I haven't stated, and that should be mentioned is the idea of people asking about pieces/parts that can potentially turn a "non-firearm" into a "firearm".

If someone who is obviously new to airguns/guns is asking questions about pieces/parts that will allow for such a thing- any seller of products gets put into an interesting legal position. It is not a vendor's job to tell people how to construct firearms out of non-firearms. When people who are apparenly not completely "new" to airguns pr firearms laws ask such questions, they are advised that making use of the parts they are inquiring about may make them a "firearm" and they are reminded appropriately of their legal requirements/obligations if they use such parts in specific manner.

When someone who is not, at least in as far as can be assessed at first glance, familiar with airguns or gun law- 'educating' them is beyond a vendor's scope, generally speaking. This is where the internet and online forums become useful to people- researching a topic, learning the laws and then asking questions. If I respond to a question with "cut the hammerspring down 6 coils to stay below 500fps and not create a firearm" and am then confronted with the question of "what has been done to this part to produce more power, and how much more power" thereby indicating the inference of "this will create a firearm if you do not cut the hammer spring" has been completely missed or overlooked intentionally is not a good sign- and you have pretty much guaranteed yourself to not getting a response beyond that.

If anything, any seller is more inclined to take a position of either advising to not do anything to modify a product, or discouraging the purchase of parts to someone making it obvious as to their intent of creating 'firearms' where one did not exist previously if they have not established they understand the legal ramifications of such an activity and/or have the appropriate license/permit to do so. No one is going to risk their business by doing something outright and plainly obvious in respect to directly advising someone how to make a product they seem to be, at least on the surface, not legally able to own. It is this initial judgment of a person based on their request(s) that dictates further communications. If someone makes it obvious as to their intent and has not provided any qualification as to their legal status in doing such a thing- the request/question gets trashbinned, plain and simple.

Call it whatever you like, but in my view a vendor advising a person on a product where they have not established this person has any knowledge of the items, or any legal knowledge of things regarding changes of classification in respect to "firearm" vs. "non-firearm" is bad news. Ignoring or otherwise avoiding answering such questions from such people is really the safest way to avoid potential legal issues in the future.

[Poor-man Plinker]

...Agreed that simple research could prevent a lot of repetitiveness but lets be honest most people just are not built that way.
Very few people fully understand what a busy guy our host is...Then be satisfied with the answers you get or devote a substantial part of your life to doing your own experiments.

Please allow me to continue to play the fool. I have years of practice and am pretty good at it. And, here is my challange. (As if I have only one?)
Simple research, of which I have done a fair bit, often generates opinion disguised as fact. I do not mean stated conclusions based on research, but, just repetition of opinions that have become internet legends. Heck even the Cardew family contradict themselves in ..."from Trigger to Target." What answers can a person be satisfied with? What no-name is going to be taken seriously when the experts have had their theories spread far and wide? Are we all doomed to having to reinvent the wheel?

No one expects the host to be the know-all and end-all. That is why forum exists? Right? I know this is rehetorical and there is no simple answer. I also know that it is human nature to think that everyone else should know what we know and think like we think, OR, there is something wrong with them. So, again, I plead with you pundits to understand that you are unique in your knowledge base and your approach to airguns. The rest of us are just babbling morons looking to have some fun with our new toys and want to tinker a bit with less than adequate skills.

[SeanMP]

Agreed. The internet is a tricky place. A person needs to have their BS filter turned up to max. But airguns are like anything else that is researched, the science evolves ahead of common opinion.

I have formed an opinion over the years that in this field there is really only a handful of people that are reducing everything to pure science and testing based on standard methodology. It's pretty easy to figure out who this group is if you hang about for a bit. When someone in this group gives advice you can bet your bootstraps there are several spreadsheets to back it up Also this group is notable because they don't make a lot of brash statements.....Herein lies a piece of wisdom

[pharoah007]

wow, this was quite the read upon returning from camping for the past few days.

[Poor-man Plinker]

A good bit of wisdom there Sean. I imagine both Pharoah and I would both be served to heed that as advice even. Well... I guess you just never realize how big the feet of your dance partners are until you step on their toes. Thanks for being as wise as you are intellegent.

As for scientific methodology; I just cannot bring myself to spend the funds or find the access to quality products to shoot the hundreds and hundreds of rounds necessary to get a statistically signigicant "N." However, I am a number cruncher like yourself and would only publish comments or results having some supporting test data and/or quotes from previous literature to support why I would say what I say. I just dont have a machine shop either so I am kind of a hick in my mods. But, If my mods are bad I will be the first to post it.

I am hoping to find everyday solutions for guys like Pharoah and myself who have a new toy and a few tools and desire to make improvements for not a lot of money. Not everyone wants to turn their $60 gun into a $260 gun when with some elbow grease and a few simple tools they can get close to the same results.