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Thread: Was this a forum member?

  1. #1
    Member fabforce1's Avatar
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    Was this a forum member?

    Was this anyone that frequents this forum?
    http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/police-de...t-gun-1.910059
    Doesn't give too much info, such as, was the air gun in a case or was he carrying it in plain sight????
    I know that some cases look like a rifle and people just over react. If he was carrying it without some sort of case, well lets just say he is very lucky he didn't get shot by a gung ho cop.
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  2. #2
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Interesting, but I think awfully stupid. Is there a law against carrying a rifle on your back if it's not loaded and has a trigger lock/disabled trigger on it? Would not the this be the same as if someone were carry a rifle in the front of their truck?

    Of course, why is the guy laying face-down in the pavement with police all over him- I'm thinking the police, instead of, at worst, drawing their guns on him and asking him to put the rifle down slowly and then start asking questions, they had to get all macho about it and knock him over and jump on his back, apparently, at least based on the picture, with him having no gun in his hands.
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


  3. #3
    Member Gippeto's Avatar
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    This guy didn't break any laws...he is the victim of a stupid, frightened society and cops with belly full of self importance. These officers need to be made an example of ...VERY publicly IMO...to get the message across to not only other law enforcement, but the citizenry of this country as well. Law enforcement is there to PROTECT the rights and freedoms of the average citizen...NOT to trample upon those rights.

    Leaves me wondering what the hell happened to SERVE AND PROTECT. I guess it's just an empty and meaningless slogan they put on their cars now.

    Al

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gippeto View Post
    This guy didn't break any laws...he is the victim of a stupid, frightened society and cops with belly full of self importance. These officers need to be made an example of ...VERY publicly IMO...to get the message across to not only other law enforcement, but the citizenry of this country as well. Law enforcement is there to PROTECT the rights and freedoms of the average citizen...NOT to trample upon those rights.

    Leaves me wondering what the hell happened to SERVE AND PROTECT. I guess it's just an empty and meaningless slogan they put on their cars now.

    Al
    This guy was riding a bike with an un cased "firearm". It does not matter if it was a pellet gun, it appeared to be a rifle. They did not know if he was just going down the street or going to go shoot people.

    And since they presumed it was a firearm the method of transportation was highly illegal. In my opinion the response by police was justified.

    If the officers were made an example of then maybe next time they let a report of a person riding down a street with a gun just go. Maybe that person goes on a shooting spree. I am sure everybody would have a different opinion that the police didn't do their job and demand they be made an example of.

    They were SERVING AND PROTECTING the PUBLIC from a possible killer. It is the kids own fault for being an idiot and taking a pellet gun on his bike in the middle of a city. This is not the 50's anymore.

  5. #5
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Well I'll toss my two cents in here from the perspective of a guy who is in an enforcement related job and has combat experience in two theaters.

    When you suddenly find yourself in the situation your brain registers a "gun" It's not an air gun or a blue gun or a big gun or a little gun, it's a GUN. And your job is to neutralize that threat before that GUN is used to kill you or someone else.

    Secondly Montreal is in a state of heightened awareness concerning young people that are engaging in violent activities. Therefore you have 1) a real and present danger. 2) A young man that fits a demographic profile. 3) A GUN

    If for the purposes of discussion we say that this was a young man running around in Afghanistan with a piece of wood carved to look like an AK47.....whats our take on the situation now?

    Bottom line is the situation resolved with no one getting shot.....that's a good job
    Sean

  6. #6
    Member Dukemeister's Avatar
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    Sean, I agree with your assessment 100%.
    It goes to show how naieve people can be, speaking of the bicycle riding 20+ yr old the kid toting a rifle. All airguns look like a formidable ******s, even the pink plastic ones. I was in CT recently buying a scope, and was perusing the powderburners , and they did have a selection of colorful rifles, so even a pink 760 pumpmaster could get you in hot water. I was most taken aback by a 410 carbine in the cabinet, it looked to be about 30" long and less intimidating than any of my air rifles. FWIW.
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  7. #7
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Let's not compare a war theatre to someone in a metropolitan area of Canada- that would be an apples-to-orange situation- and can easily become a very short trip from a situation/state of "heightened awareness" into an outright police-state mentality. Police officers are not "soldiers" they are "police officers".

    My point is that unless the guy is holding the gun in hand, ending up face-down on the pavement should not be a necessary action in most scenarios. Four cops, one guy with a rifle- presumably not in his hands- I just can't see "eating pavement" as a requirement. "Police" in my view at least, have in some ways a more difficult job than "soldiers" - they don't have the luxury of a (hopefully) straightforward "enemy" vs. "friend" guideline- everyone is a "citizen", idiot or not, and needs to be judged on the specifics of a situation- i.e. no gun in hand, talk to the guy while holding and pointing your sidearm- jamming head into pavement not necessarily a requirement unless the person acts inappropriately without instruction- i.e. starts to reach for the gun or acts in an aggressive manner inconsistent with someone who is surprised/stunned by what is going on. While we can't say what occurred here specifically, I don't think it would be unreasonable to surmise that a young man, when confronted with a few cops while having a pellet rifle strapped to their bike, the reaction would have been one of "what.???..." and a look of bewilderment and likely freezing while their brain is attempting to process what is going on.

    That being said, riding through a metropolitan area with a gun of any sort being visible is probably not the most intelligent thing to be doing, especially in today's culture.
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


  8. #8
    Member Gippeto's Avatar
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    The citizen that called it in as well as these officers PRESUMED the fellow was guilty of a crime and reacted accordingly. Trouble is that as far as I know, it's still "innocent until PROVEN guilty in this country.

    Has this changed? When did we begin ACCEPTING having our rights and freedoms being removed on a whim of someone else?

    I understand they are reacting thusly out of fear, and can even accept it to a degree on the part of the citizen. The officers however, were appraised of the basic facts before responding, had a few moments of time while approaching the scene to evaluate the situation, determine the subjects posture (and possible intent) and decide upone a threat level BEFORE actually entering the situation...reacting from fear in this case was not warrant.

    If the officer otherwise unaware, had walked around the corner and seen the guy unslinging his rifle, I would be very much on the officers side if the initial reaction was strong, but this was not a case of having a split second to "recognize a threat, decide on a response and react" and should not IMO be treated as such.


    Al

  9. #9
    Member DocGadget's Avatar
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    I think the cops did right, nowhere does it say the guy hit the ground. The cops showed up asked him to put the gun gun down and lie down, they cuffed and searched him upon realisation that it was a pellet rifle and after checking that he wasn't breaking any laws they probably released the guy. The cops all have their guns holstered. No one seems to be yelling.
    They saw a guy with a gun disarmed him checked if everything was ok and released him, I don't see anything wrong here. If I was a cop and I would have seen someone riding a bike with a rifle coming out of a backpac I would have arrested him until I was sure the only thing he had on him was a pellet gun.

    It could have been avoided if he had transported the gun in a case or bag.

  10. #10
    Member SureShot's Avatar
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    In the words of Doctor Phil: "What were you thinking!!!!!????"

    Seriously who amongst us would ride a bike with a rifle over our shoulder? Even while transporting my airguns in a vehicle I don't have them laying on the front seat. They're in cases out of reach in the back seat.

    With all the recent public shootings it's no surprise that the police acted the way they did. If they didn't and the shooter was a real threat there would have been hell to pay.
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