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Thread: Ontario Gun Registry??

  1. #1
    Member PACTOO's Avatar
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    Ontario Gun Registry??

    Saw this at another forum.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2012/04/30...irearms-lawyer

    Eric have you been contacted and asked to participate with PAL purchases?
    Confucious says: He who slings mud, often loses ground!

  2. #2
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Well the CFO can tell people to do all manner of things but without legislation I don't see that it's enforceable
    Sean

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    Member daguasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanMP View Post
    Well the CFO can tell people to do all manner of things but without legislation I don't see that it's enforceable
    exactly...they cant just make up rules ...they have no authority to back it with action... it will go nowhere

    "cuz i said so" is not how laws are made...lol
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion ...but only mine is right!
    DAVE G

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    I did have those records sir, but they were accidentally knocked into the shredder.

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    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    "I did have those records, Sir.... but they were stolen.... Can I get your signature here that you were the one that required I compile the information?"....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
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    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Someone may (?) be making an issue out of something that is not necessarily an issue. The government had required licensed sellers to record license information from firearms buyers even before the "Registry"- it was/is not currently "submitted" anywhere and I really don't know what the purpose of it is, other than perhaps to prosecute a vendor/store that cannot account for all their firearms sales if they are asked for it (presumably as part of a license renewal process or a search warrant)- i.e. selling stuff to street gangs or such 'on the side' illegally. It was never, to my knowledge, used in the past to do anything about legitimate gun buyers- it was for use as a potential audit tool against the store/vendor. That being said, I don't know if any store has ever been prosecuted using such information/the lack of such information- more likely had their license revoked for not following the CFO rules.

    That being said, the Chief Firearms Officer (i.e. a provincial government office) is delegated under the law to administer things relating to the Firearms Act in their province- how far they can require/ask for "information" for the purposes of administering things I can't say I know at this point...
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


  7. #7
    Member PACTOO's Avatar
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    Thought it might be but wasn't sure! If this is true it will surely drive Ontarians to purchase outside of their province and hurt businesses here! Hopefully some common sense will prevail in this province, I won't hold my breath though!
    Confucious says: He who slings mud, often loses ground!

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    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Won't matter- I believe every province has the same requirement. The issue here is merely one of "receipt" really- you purchase a gun or a box of cookies the vendor records the transaction. Unless you pay in cold, hard cash- it can be determined exactly what you bought, when and where if "everybody" plays along i.e. the bank and the store. For a society that is paying 85% of its bills using credit cards, debit cards, email payments, etc. this should be a non-issue- if someone really wants to know what you bought at the drugstore last Tuesday or the gas station yesterday, or the "adult" store on Saturday, it can be figured out pretty easily, if "everybody" plays along.

    The one thing people are missing here too, is- let's assume that a gun store records everything about a transaction- buyer's license info, address and the product purchased. This buyer then "sells" the gun to someone else to whom they believed had valid licensing- this person-person transfer did not require any recording of details and the gun is now "lost" to the public record/any records.

    This process, by the way, is no different than the US- FFL holders (gun sellers) are required to record transaction details (without a license, mind you), meanwhile people can sell guns person-to-person with no such checks or recording of info- this is called the "gunshow loophole" of late.

    I don't see what the big deal about this is, other than a bunch of people looking for something "new" to complain about. Gun sales have been handled this way for a couple decades before the Registry came along. The "problem" only starts if the CFO starts requiring dealers to submit this information and they start recording it in a centralized location.
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


  9. #9
    Member PACTOO's Avatar
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    (Something of interest posted elsewhere)

    "TEAM CSSA E-NEWS - May 8th, 2012


    Please find enclosed the following letter from Minister Toews. Thank you all for your support and a special thank you to the government of Stephen Harper for standing up for the rights of all Canadians.

    -------

    Commissioner Robert Paulson

    Assistant Commissioner Pierre Perron
    Director General Canadian Firearms Program

    --

    Dear Commissioner Paulson and Assistant Commissioner Perron

    Canadians gave our government a strong mandate to end the wasteful and ineffective long-gun registry once and for all. Bill C-19, the Ending the Long-Gun Registry Act, did just that.

    It has been suggested in various media reports that Chief Firearms Officers, acting pursuant to their purported authority under the Firearms Act, are attempting to collect point of sale data that they are no longer authorized to collect pursuant to Bill C-19. To be clear, the Firearms Act neither authorizes this activity, nor any other measures that could facilitate the creation of a provincial long-gun registry.

    The Canadian Firearms Program and the RCMP at large are to provide no assistance or direction to any province seeking to undertake measures of this nature, except as expressly required by valid provincial legislation. The position of the Federal Government, as dictated by the will of Canadians, is that registration of long-guns is wasteful and ineffective. I expect that this position will be fully respected at all times, while respecting the judicial injunction in Quebec that we will continue to vigorously oppose in the courts.

    If it comes to your attention that CFOs are interpreting the Firearms Act as a basis for unauthorized data collection, please advise me immediately. I am prepared to consider all legislative and regulatory measures necessary to give effect to the will of Canadians.

    Yours truly,

    Vic Toews, P.C., Q.C., M.P.

    Cc: All Chief Firearms Officers
    Confucious says: He who slings mud, often loses ground!

  10. #10
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    Interesting. Unfortunately, it also underlines that the government (Federal) cannot fully control CFO's in provinces (some provinces CFO's are appointed by the Feds, some by the Province themself- Ontario appoints its own CFO, as an example) unless there is some political will to do so.

    I guess with this issue- better to circumvent the CFO's from demanding information be collected (even if they don't have the authority to see it, technically speaking) up-front, rather than dealing with them demanding the data from gun vendors somewhere down the road, perhaps based on who's governing the country at that point.
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


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