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Thread: PRod Trigger Group on 13XX or 22XX

  1. #1
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    PRod Trigger Group on 13XX or 22XX

    I managed to get a complete Crosman trigger group for the Marauder Pistol, with hopes of using it on either a 1322 or 1740 I am working on.... The trigger group is built on the same frame as the latest 13XX and 22XX triggers, using the plastic side plate.... It incorporates a drop sear, intermediate link with adjustments for the 1st and 2nd stage, a trigger pull weight adjustment, and an overtravel screw.... In other words, it is completely adjustable, producing a target quality trigger.... although even at minimum pull weight it is probably still a bit heavy for that use.... I would think a bit of tinkering with the springs would soon cure that.... It is much less sensitive to a change in hammer spring because of the intermediate link.... so using a heavy hammer spring won't result in a heavy trigger pull that can't be adjusted out....



    The PRod uses a tube of the same dimensions as a 22XX, and as expected, the trigger "worked" when bolted up to the 2240 tube my 1740 is based on.... When bolted onto the smaller diameter 1322 tube, however, it wouldn't cock.... I determined that the problem was that the smaller tube fit slightly deeper into the recess in the top of the trigger frame, which pushed the sear down further than if it was bolted to a 22XX tube.... This made the sear interfere with the intermediate link, and the sear couldn't drop into place on that link to return to the cocked position and catch the hammer.... The solution was very simple.... I just filed a flat on the bottom of the tube just in front of the sear slot to allow the sear to move up further.... The area of the sear which interferred, and the part of the tube I filed away are circled in yellow on the photos.... I just filed the flat until it was the same width as the slot, and about 1/4" long....



    Now I had a trigger which would function on the 13XX installation.... well almost.... In order to cock the gun, you had to pull the trigger.... The same thing happened when the trigger was installed on the 22XX.... It turns out that once fired, the drop sear (the part circled in red) is lifted back into place by it's own spring, and the intermediate lever latches, holding it up.... The sear is now sitting in the groove around the middle of the hammer (similar in shape on both the 13XX and 22XX hammers).... and when you go to pull the bolt back the slope on the front part of that groove can't push the sear out of the way like it does with the spring loaded sear on the stock trigger group.... OK, so you have to pull the trigger back to cock the gun, pull back the bolt/hammer, then release the trigger to latch the hammer back.... That's a PITA, but workable.... maybe....

    Now on to the next problem.... When you fire the gun, the sear pops up so quickly into that groove that it prevents the hammer from hitting the valve as hard as usual.... Even on 6 pumps, the valve was retaining air.... The solution was to grind away the bottom of the hammer behind the groove so that the sear can't hit it.... You can see the part of the hammer I ground away circled in red.... You have to grind it to nearly the same depth as the groove, for about half the length of the larger diameter.... The same modification would be required on a 22XX hammer....

    What does this mean?.... Well, for use with either a 13XX or 22XX hammer, you would have to grind away part of the hammer, and the gun still can't be cocked without pulling the trigger.... This doesn't happen on the PRod because the hammer doesn't have the thinner "waist" in the center, it is cylindrical (with flat sides, but that doesn't matter).... Since it is flat on the bottom, once you pull the trigger to fire the gun, the sear stays down until the gun is recocked.... nothing for the sear to hit or prevent recocking.... An obvious solution on a 22XX would be to purchase the hammer from the PRod (or from a Challenger 2009) and install it along with the PRod trigger.... You get the extra advantage of an adjustable hammer fall, since that is a feature of both guns.... Although I have not tried it, I have heard that filling in the bottom part of the "waist" with JB Weld and filing it smooth works as well (you wouldn't grind the hammer like I did).... As long as the bottom of the hammer is smooth (no groove), this trigger will function normally, and you won't have to pull the trigger to cock the gun.... On a 13XX tube, you will still need to file a small area in front of the sear slot, however....

    Those of you who were wondering about using a PRod trigger group on your 13XX or 22XX now have your answer.... It bolts up, but it's not a "bolt-on".... However, it can be made to work with other changes....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  2. #2
    Senior Member sholo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsterne View Post
    Although I have not tried it, I have heard that filling in the bottom part of the "waist" with JB Weld and filing it smooth works as well (you wouldn't grind the hammer like I did)....
    I haven't tried it yet either (kinda hard seeing as I don't have a p-rod trigger group yet!), but a fellow on another forum (CAPOF) has, and apparently it works flawlessly. Even after 500-600 shots, the JB Weld doesn't even have a mark in it.

    Pretty simple fix if one doesn't have a p-rod hammer...

    Todd

    Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweatty things!

  3. #3
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    Thanks Bob another great project completed.

  4. #4
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    I installed my PRod trigger group on my 2260 PCP Carbine Grouse Gun.... I used the hammer from a CH2009 (including the adjustable striker screw), and it works flawlessly.... By changing the hammer along with the trigger group, it becomes a bolt-in job, and with the hammer travel set at maximum (full in CCW) the velocity is unchanged from the 22XX trigger group and hammer.... I simply LOVE the 2-stage setup and the adjustablity.... and the far lighter trigger pull, especially when using a heavy hammer spring.... Anyone considering upgrading the trigger on their 22XX should have a look at the PRod trigger group and hammer assembly.... Part numbers are as follows:

    PRod Trigger group - 2200-103 (mine didn't come with the safety ball and spring, but it should have, likely fell out before shipping)
    Hammer - CH2009A009
    Striker - 1763A036
    Acetal Pin - CH2009-023 (stops the striker from rotating - not necessary if you run it at max power - ie full CCW)

    If you are using the trigger group on a 13XX, you will have to either modify your existing hammer as in the post above, or better yet, make a cylindrical one.... You will also need to file a small flat in the tube as above....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  5. #5
    Member Gippeto's Avatar
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    I find this REALLY interesting Bob. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.


    Al

  6. #6
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    That is a really nice trigger Bob.

    Whats a rough $$?
    Sean

  7. #7
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Bought a bunch of stuff through Joe at HPA Sports in Idaho all at the same time.... IIRC, the trigger group was about $35 from Crosman.... Since it's from a PRod, Eric can probably get it, but usually the stuff that doesn't come into Canada is a bit of a crap shoot.... Hopefully he will start carrying these in limited quantities, along with the hammer to go with it.... It woud be nice if you could get a 13XX hammer to go with it, but since Crosman don't make one it would be a custom job to make them.... I don't think the adjustable striker is a necessity, so it wouldn't be hard to someone to tool up to supply them.... However, since filling the waist of the hammer with JB Weld is easy and cheap there may not be a big enough market.... Like everything else, it would depend on the price they could be made/supplied at.... I've made hammers from 1045 and then hardened them and they work great.... but I'm not into mass production.... just not my bag....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  8. #8
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    $35 is very reasonable

    Okay I have a question for you seeing as you have worked with both styles of triggers

    If you were going to build a one off shoulder cannon(2-300fpe) would you prefer the rolling style sear of the 160/QB-AR or the Prod drop sear. Of course factoring in that the spring forces would be higher than typical.
    My initial thoughts were the rolling style sear would be less affected by frictional forces of the heavier hammer springs
    Sean

  9. #9
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    I'm not sure which would be better.... The parts in the QB are more massive, and on that basis it might be stronger.... if that's even an issue to consider.... No plastic side plates, either....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

  10. #10
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Correction to the part number on the PRod trigger group.... 2220-103 NOT 2200-103.... Sorry for the typo....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal:
    .177 Diana 34, 1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 22XX PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 PCP Rifle (50 FPE), Hayabusa PCP, .22 B-26, DAQ .308 Exile

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