RCMP Phishing Expedition

[rsterne]

The following is published in the Canadian Shooting Sports Association's Newsletter and I thought it's worth sharing.

RCMP GOES OVER THE TOP?: Many of our members have complained about the RCMP attempting to gather information they no longer have the legislative authority to possess. When a seller of a firearm calls to verify a buyer's PAL number, a simple system that was supposed to assist firearms sellers in knowing the individual they were selling to was indeed licensed, the RCMP have been asking for very detailed information regarding the SELLER of the firearm. Whoa! This is an intolerable abuse of their authority as C-19 removed their ability to demand that information. The solution is simple. Don't use the license verification system until it is fixed. The law does not REQUIRE you to verify a PAL, or is there a penalty for not verifying it. If the buyer has a PAL with their picture on it and it's not expired, you're covered; you're good to go. That counts as having "no reason to believe that the transferee is not authorized to acquire and possess that kind of firearm." We fought for 17 years to win this freedom, PLEASE use it. The simple and easy verification of PALs was supposed to be a benefit and convenience for the firearms community, not be perverted into an information phishing scam. Once again the RCMP steps all over Canadians under the guise of offering a public service. The CSSA recommends Canadian gun-owners stop calling the CFP to verify PALs -- boycott the system until they correct it.

From Bill C-19:

23. A person may transfer a firearm that is neither a prohibited firearm nor a restricted firearm:

(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess that kind of firearm; and if, at the time of the transfer,

(b) the transferor has no reason to believe that the transferee is not authorized to acquire and possess that kind of firearm.

Bob

[AirGunEric]

It is the "cop mentality" at work here. The times I have called/dealt with local police to file a complaint on something, report a crime, whatever, they ask for details that are effectively irrelevant to the issue at hand- i.e. what is my home address, what is my birthday, etc. etc.

Police gather anything/everything with the mental frame of "maybe this person is doing no good, so we better check them out in the course of investigating their complaint/reporting of a potential crime"- i.e. am I "wanted" for something, somewhere so they can get a "two-for-one" if I choose to report something to them. This is both by training and by attitude in my opinion- once you (a cop) do something enough times, it becomes a reflex action no matter how inappropriate it may be.

The likely idea with gathering this information is that they will use it to "analyze" and determine if some people seem to be involved in an ordinate (define "inordinate"- it is purely subjective) number of gun sales. Problem, yet again, is that the law-abiding person (the gun seller) that is trying to ensure the buyer of a gun is properly licensed is the one being scrutinized.

The more dubious aspect to this is that they may be using the information gathered (it seems likely they would also ask 'what gun?' is being sold to the buyer) to continue with a non-approved registry- i.e. a "hidden gun registry" that is not being scrutinized outside the RCMP, and is, of course, also not going to be terribly accurate.

[rsterne]

How incredibly stupid of them.... Would they sooner have firearms in the possession of someone without a PAL than transferred to someone that can legally possess it?....

Simple example.... Somebody dies, widow wants to give the gun to a neighbour who has a PAL and phones to check his PAL.... I'm guessing the RCMP will either try and confiscate the gun or at a minimum will scare the he!! out of her with all the questions....

Bob

[SeanMP]

It may be even more sinister than that. There is/was thousands of legitimate gun owners that refused to register. They may be fishing for info about those folks that are "suddenly " selling guns that never existed on the registry.

[AirGunEric]

Ah - a "watchlist" of sorts to determine who has been a naughty-boy in the past- i.e. the next group of people who may have their their gun storage "checked".

[SeanMP]

Yes I'm sure that's part of it.

And with the Quebec injunction currently preventing the destruction of the records (destruction of the records was a key component of this bill) it would not surprise me that the record or lack thereof is still admissible.

[rsterne]

the next group of people who may have their their gun storage "checked".

Any idea if they can enter the home of someone with a PAL just to "check storage" when there is no proof of guns on the premises?.... I'm not so sure I'd just open the door for them now that the Register is gone.... "Nothing to inspect, go away"....

Bob

[PACTOO]

Any idea if they can enter the home of someone with a PAL just to "check storage" when there is no proof of guns on the premises?.... I'm not so sure I'd just open the door for them now that the Register is gone.... "Nothing to inspect, go away"....

Bob

They need probable cause or a search warrant to enter your home uninvited!! My understanding was they can request to see your storage if you have a PAL but not whenever they want like 4 am or something!!