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Thread: My Hayabusa PCP - The Experiment Continues

  1. #1
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    My Hayabusa PCP - The Experiment Continues

    I've been busy with other projects, but figured I better drag out the Hayabusa and do some more work on it, based on what I have learned over the past few months.... I pulled the back end of the gun apart, drilled out the hammer to 3/8" ID, drilled out the RVA, and fitted the hammer spring from a QB.... I now have plenty of spring power so I have lots of adjustment instead of running out of room on the RVA with the shorter springs I had been using previously.... The gun doesn't have any more power with the lighter pellets, but it did pick up a bit with the heavier ones.... I'm still running the gun regulated at ~1900 psi, and here are the results at various hammer spring settings....



    I'm now up to 73 FPE with the EunJin Points, and over 60 FPE with the JSB Kings, at maximum power.... However, the gun set up that way is an Air Hog.... I can dial it down 4 full turns on the RVA without losing any velocity and double the shot count, still at 60 FPE with the Kings and 62 FPE with the Baracudas.... Set that way, I would get about 25 shots per fill.... Once again, I found that giving up just a few fps below the plateau works wonders with the air consumption, however.... Backed out one more turn, I only lost 30 fps, and gained another 10 shots or so.... You can see the effect on the Efficiency that the RVA has using the dotted line on the graph above....

    This setting (5 turns out on the RVA) formed the basis for additional tests, starting from 1004 fps and an efficiency of 0.96 FPE/CI with the JSB Kings.... The first thing I did was started restricting the transfer port with the adjusting screw on the side of the breech.... You can see the results in the dashed line on the graph.... The first two turns made no difference, I assume because the small protrusion of the ball shaped end on the screw, although restricting the port, was smoothing the flow compared to when it was fully retracted.... At 3 turns in, the velocity dropped to 962 fps and the efficiency jumped to 1.19 FPE/CI.... At that point, I'm getting over 50 shots at 52 FPE per fill, and I can shoot down to 1500 psi before the velocity drops below 950 fps.... Once I get a chance to do some accuracy testing at longer ranges, I can adjust the velocity from 1000 fps down to as low as 600 fps by simply turning a screw in the side of the breech....

    When I made the hammer for this gun, I made the throw (hammer travel) adjustable using the adjusting screw from an MRod.... You reach it from the back with a long allen key, by removing the RVA adjusting screw.... With the spring preload at 5 turns out, there is very little static preload on the hammer spring.... As you lengthen the nose of the hammer by turning in the adjusting screw, you reduce the distance the hammer travels, reducing it's momentum.... However, you increase the static preload on the hammer spring because the resting position of the hammer moves back.... These two effects cancel each other out (at the spring preload tested) for about the first 4 turns on the throw adjuster.... and the velocity stays constant.... I did notice, however, that the first shot in the string had a slightly lower velocity, and that difference increased as I reduced the hammer travel (and increased the spring preload).... As I further decreased the hammer travel, the velocity did begin to drop.... By the time I moved the adjustment 10 turns (0.42"), the velocity had dropped to 920 fps, but the first shot was under 900 fps.... I did not check how the efficiency changed as I adjusted the hammer throw, because the inconcsistency of the first shot bothered me.... I ended up backing up the adjuster to go back to the full hammer travel I started with....

    My base settings are: Full hammer travel.... 5 turns out on the RVA.... and 3 turns in on the Velocity Adjuster.... That has me sitting at an Efficiency of 1.19 FPE/CI (13.8 Barcc/FPE) giving 50 shots at 52 FPE (962 fps) with the JSB Kings.... With 1 turn on the velocity adjuster either way, I can change from 900 fps to 1000 fps, which should enable me to fine tune the accuracy.... I can't wait until the snow melts and I can do some long range testing....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  2. #2
    Senior Member remtom1200's Avatar
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    giving 50 shots at 52 FPE (962 fps)
    That is a lot of shots at 962fps!
    For every mile of road, there's two miles of ditch

  3. #3
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    It's been nearly a year since I worked on my Hayabusa.... During that time I've learned a lot, and I hope to apply some of that knowledge to this project over the next few weeks.... Here is the gun in it's current form.... It's a .25 cal repeater, regulated to 1900 psi, and shooting 25.4 gr. JSB Kings at 960 fps.... It gets about 50 shots per fill.... I also have a .22 cal LW barrel that interchanges with the .25 cal LW in the same breech....



    For a while now, I have had several other barrels for further development, a .30 cal and 9mm Lothar Walther, a .457 liner from TJs, and even a .410 shotgun barrel with polychoke.... but no time to work on them.... A few months ago, I came across some information about new bullets from Holland that are being used in Benchrest competition and doing a spectacular job, with groups at 100 M (110 yards) as small as 12 mm (under 1/2").... They are a .224 cal version of the classic .22LR bullet, are made by RWS, and appear to be very close to their R-50? target bullet.... The barrel required is, of course, slightly larger than the 0.217" airgun barrel, with a faster twist.... They are using a .22 Hornet barrel with a 1 in 14" twist.... SeanMP and I decided to do a pair of guns.... Sean's is going to be a new, scratch built design, while I'm going to use my Hayabusa as a base, but unregulated, and with a new breech, valve, hammer, and other changes.... In fact, about the only parts carried over to the new gun will be the trigger assembly and the stock, plus the ring assembly that holds the back of the tank and the front of the trigger.... The Mark II Hayabusa will look almost identical, but the changes are vast, and won't occur overnight....

    I ordered two .224 liners from TJs with a 1/2" OD, and had them shipped direct to Sean.... He ordered 2000 bullets from Holland, plus two pieces of 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD Carbon Fibre tubing to stiffen the barrels.... We each purchased a .22 cal Hatsan Air Stripper, and Sean did all the machine work on the barrels.... He crowned and threaded the muzzle 1/2"-20-NF for the strippers, glued the CF tubes in place with Accraglas, and machined the chambers and barrel ports.... In addition, he lapped and polished the bores to perfectly fit the bullets.... I received my barrel and bullets yesterday, and here are the photos of his work.... GORGEOUS !!!







    The barrel port is a bit unusual.... I designed it so that the area was the same as the bore, but the width was only 75% of the bore size, to prevent damaging the bullets on loading.... The transfer port will be 0.219", and the barrel port starts that size and becomes oval, ending up 0.160" x 0.312" at the bore.... The back of the port is vertical, and the front is angled forward about 45*, maintaining a constant area and smoothing the flow to the base of the bullet.... The valve will have matching areas throughout as a lot of flow is needed to get the performance required....

    The goal for these rifles is daunting, but we know it's attainable as they are doing it in Holland with the "Sinner" target rifles.... We need to duplicate the performance of .22LR standard velocity target rounds, or nearly so.... The goal is a velocity with the 41.5 gr. bullets of between 950 and 1050 fps.... for an FPE of 83-102 FPE.... and we need to do this with a 3000 psi fill, at least I do, because that is the pressure rating of my 22CI tank.... My onboard air volume will total about 475 cc, and 110-115 cc of that will be "on deck" and available for the shot in the main tube, which is open directly to the valve seat.... That will keep the pressure drop during the shot to a minimum.... I want to achieve a 5 shot string with the onboard air, if possible.... These guns are usually shot while tethered to a SCUBA tank or a regulated SCBA tank....

    The next step is to finalize the design and dimensions, and then I can start making chips.... I hope to be able to finish the gun before the Motel gets busy again in the late spring.... My thanks to SeanMP for the beautiful job on the barrel.... I hope to do it justice....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  4. #4
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Oh boy oh boy oh boy......this is the part I've been waiting for.




    Thanks for the kind words Bob....even if I made ya wait for months

    Bad Sean...
    Sean

  5. #5
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    awwwwwwwww.... you just had a little Princess get in your way.... *chuckle*.... Now that's shes working as an Apprentice you'll be back up to speed in no time....

    I meant every word I said about the quality of your work.... I'm embarrased, by comparison....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  6. #6
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    It's finally time to start making some chips.... I spent a couple of days designing the breech and came up with a design that will work for all four barrels from .224 to .9mm.... The .224 and .257 will share a breech with a 1/4" loading tray and the .308 and 9mm will share a second one with a 3/8" loading tray.... The design for the tank block was done a year ago, so it was just a matter of printing it off, double checking it and making a few detail changes and notes, and then machining it.... Yeah, well it sounds a lot easier than it was.... It took me the entire day just to make the tank block, and I had to finish it after dinner.... Here it is....





    The tank mount is the threaded portion of a 5/8"-18 NF Grade 8 bolt drilled out to 3/8".... The tank (sans regulator) seals directly to the rear face of the block with an O-ring.... The stub that goes into the 1" OD x 0.065" CrMoly main tube is located by three high tensile 10-32 low profile SHCSs and sealed by two O-rings.... The tank and tube nearly touch.... The larger hole in the stub is the air passage (9/32") which is larger than any of the ports I'll be using so basically all of the 475 cc of air is available to keep the pressure up at the valve seat during a shot.... The 1/4-20 NC tapped hole above it is for a long threaded rod that carries the valve spring.... On the left side of the block is a 3000 psi gauge (upper hole) and a male Foster fitting (lower hole) and on the right side is a 5K burst disc.... The vertical transfer hole is plugged on top with a flush 1/8" pipe plug.... The recess on the top front with the two 6-32 holes is for mounting a barrel band, and on the bottom is a 3-slot Picatinny rail....

    Hopefully tomorrow I'll get to start on the breeches....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Doc Sharptail's Avatar
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    Those bullets look suspiciously like the old 50 gr. Lyman for the Hornet. Might be worth it to keep an eye on gunborker and flea pay for an original mould. It'd be tons cheeper than having cast boolits shipped from Holland.

    I had some Polar Biathlon's by Lapua that had a 41.5 gr bullet at 1075-1100 fps depending on temperature. They were extremely accurate, and expensive. If you can replicate that at even 1050 fps, good things are gonna happen- especially for small game hunting. I hope everything goes your way!

    Regards,

    Doc Sharptail
    "Ain't No Half Way"

    -S.R.V.

  8. #8
    Senior Member SeanMP's Avatar
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    Nice looking tank block Bob

    Are you milling that stub or turning it in an offset 4 jaw?

    Ether way brilliant job!
    Sean

  9. #9
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Turned it offset in a 4-jaw.... Milling it?.... I don't have either a CNC or a rotary table.... or a mill, for that matter.... just a milling attachment for my lathe....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  10. #10
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Well, it took three days to machine two breeches.... and I still haven't done the bolts or bolt handles.... They did, however, turn out very nice....



    The two breeches are virtually identical, with the following exceptions: The loading tray (and the forward section of the bolt) is 1/4" for the .224 / .257 cal breech (the rear one), but 3/8" for the .308 / 9mm cal breech.... the through hole above the 3/8" transfer port recess is 1/4" for the smaller cal. breech and 9/32" for the larger (with room to go to 5/16" in a 7/16" TP).... and the slot to clear the cocking lever allows for a 1.25" stroke for the .22/.25 cal and 1.5" hammer travel for the .30/.35 cal.... That is where the lower part of the breech is machined away in front of the bolt slot and behind the loading port to clear the cocking handle which will be a piece of 1/4" steel rod threaded into the hammer near the front.... It will stick out through a slot in the side of the main tube at a 40* angle upwards.... When cocked, it will be just ahead of the "closed" bolt handle (angled downwards at 25*), forming an "X".... This idea is borrowed from my DAQ and works very well, "falling readily to hand"....

    The barrel is secured with three 8-32 setscrews against the 5/8" OD portion, the rear one on the top and the front two on an angle.... The barrel is sealed into the breech both sides of the transfer port hole with O-rings.... The breech is secured to the main tube with a single 8-32 bolt at the rear and two 6-32 bolts which screw into the tank band / trigger mount at the front, making for a very rigid assembly.... Next up is to make the bolts and handles and then move on to making the valves and hammers.... After that, I still have to do all the machining on 3 of the 4 barrels, including turning to fit the breech, chambering, porting, crowning, and threading to accept a Hatsan Air Stripper.... I takes longer to do multiples of everything, but in the long run it saves setup time on the lathe.... Stay tuned....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

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