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Thread: Airguns not a firearm in the USA.... well maybe....

  1. #1
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Airguns not a firearm in the USA.... well maybe....

    I am making this same post on all the airgun Forums that I frequent, as it is of considerable importance to anyone wishing to bring an airgun across the US border in EITHER direction.... It may eventually end up being of significant importance to all US Citizens as well.... I would request that you don't shoot the messenger, this is simply an accurate account of what I was told today by US Customs at Oroville, Washington.... As you are probably aware, right on the BATF website, in their FAQs, they state that airguns are not NORMALLY firearms, because they don't use an explosive to propel the bullet.... http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/fire...echnology.html .... Now let me tell you what has transpired over the last 3 weeks....

    I have a .308 cal DAQ Exile which I put up for sale many months ago.... I had a recent inquiry from somebody in Washington State who lived close enough to me that I could take the airgun across at Oroville and we could complete the transaction in the USA.... Since in Canada it IS a firearm and requires a PAL, and since Canada Post have recently decided that they would no longer export firearms from Canada, that seemed like a good alternative.... I wanted to make sure that I wouldn't have any hassle crossing the border, so I called US Customs to find out what I might need.... In a nutshell, they went ballistic.... After 3 weeks of them calling and emailing the ATF, and avoiding giving me any answers, Customs has taken the position that because of it's power and caliber it "might" be a firearm, and in fact it might be classified as an "article of war".... They "recommend" that I apply for a Form 6 from ATF, which is a request to import a firearm into the USA.... That will force ATF to make a decision ON THIS ONE CASE, and either issue a permit to import, OR make a ruling that indeed it is not a firearm.... I will not be allowed to take it into the USA without either an approved Form 6, or a letter from the ATF stating one is not required.... I was told that "people think of airguns as BB guns or .177 cal., not something capable of being used for hunting, or a .308 cal" and that the "sudden expansion of compressed air" may be considered to be an "explosion".... so Customs have decided it is a "grey area" and won't do anything without something in writing from the ATF....

    Now here is Catch 22.... I we apply for a Form 6, we are admitting it is a firearm.... and if we don't, then Customs won't allow it to cross the border.... So, basically they are asking us to set a precedent for them, something which I am not prepared to do.... If my potential customer decides to take on the ATF, that will be up to him.... It gets better.... They also don't want any firearms or articles of war being Exported from the USA, under the same logic as scopes and barrels.... That means that if a Canadian gets stopped at the US Border for some reason trying to bring an airgun into Canada without an Export Permit, they could be in a lot of trouble, even though it says right on the ATF website that airguns are not firearms.... Presumably they might look the other way if it's a "normal" airgun in .177 cal.... and maybe .22 cal.... but you might be taking your chances with a .25 cal, and anything bigger I'm betting they would treat it like it requires an ATF Form 6 to at least be applied for (figure 6 weeks minimum).... Of course once the ATF convince people that airguns are firearms, even though their own legal definition states otherwise, then selling them between Americans may well require going through the same channels as any other firearm.... ie an FFV....

    This, to me, seems to be a case of US Customs doing a CYA by refusing to deal with the situation and requiring a ruling in writing from the BATF.... In any case, it has far reaching implications for anyone who wants to legally import or export an airgun across the US Border.... and I'm betting it's the thin edge of the wedge for a new "definition" of firearms that includes some, or all airguns under US Law....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  2. #2
    Member paddyfritz's Avatar
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    Ship it to the USA using a courier and declare it as a air rifle made in USA.

  3. #3
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    and let my customer worry about it....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

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    Hi Bob.
    What was the final outcome of this horror story?
    Red

  5. #5
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    My customer eventually contacted BATF and was told that IF the gun was an airgun as he described it, no problem, it wasn't a firearm, and no import permit was needed.... but that they (BATF) couldn't prevent Customs from seizing it for inspection.... They would NOT give my customer this in writing, only over the phone, but the BATF agent did give him his name so that Customs could contact him if they desired.... My customer agreed to take the chance, purchased it and I shipped it to him by UPS, with a letter detailing the discussion between my customer and the BATF enclosed, including the BATF agent's contact info.... It was delayed in US Customs for a couple of weeks and then delivered to him, no questions asked.... I have no idea if US Customs contacted the BATF or not....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  6. #6
    Administrator AirGunEric's Avatar
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    It is a similar situation across all borders- typically the border authorities are not required to make any special efforts to decide on an issue (i.e. what makes for a 'firearm') and should seek guidance from the proper authority (i.e. the BATF in this case). Of course, border authorities have a dual-role- both one of enforcement of the law and the facilitation of moving legal goods and such across the border. Problems can arise when someone gets it in their head they are "enforcing" a law as opposed to facilitating a legal transaction and do not seek answers from the proper authority or are given fuzzy answers from such an authority.
    I'd say I care- but I'd probably be lying...


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