"Bluesdaddy .30" Build almost done!

[bitterman]

Hi Everyone,

Been working on this with Mike the builder since January. It is now up her in canada.

I roughly used the B50/Datsate huntsmaster as a place to start but the whole gun was made from scatch except the trigger group. It is from a b50.

-28" .30 LW Airgun Blank (will give about a 26.5" barrel compared to the 18.5" stock barrel)
-Riser Breech
-Big tube 1 3/4"od (1 1/4" id) .... 8" longer than stock.
-Boyds stock


The stock for comparison is a b50 stock


































we needed more flow through the valve


The hammer


we were not without breakage... this was a valve that did not hold up


Mike did some testing using the gun int eh vice as I had the stock here for finishing



(20:03:51) bluesdaddy: 86gr 900
(20:04:42) bluesdaddy: 68gr 965 to 1065
(20:05:01) bluesdaddy: backed off to 950
(20:05:31) bluesdaddy: getting about 20 good shots with 68s
(20:10:11) bluesdaddy: velocity stays up above 875

To summarize!!!!
154FPE with 86gr @ 900fps
171FPE with 68gr @ 1065fps
136FPE with 68gr @ 950fps

He also tried some 55 grain Mr Hollow points and did 175 FPE with them but were not accurite. First tune was 50.15 Daystate Emporer at 950 fps. Mike was hitting paitballs at 100 yards with it!

Got thinkgs up here from the USA into Canada



Unfortunately shipping was not to kind to us.





I repaired the broken trigger group.. drilling new holes and taping for 8-32 screws. Also had to modify the screws to fit.



the gun did nto have a trigger guard so I made one




I did not like the raw look so I flame blued the trigger guard and stainlees screws. The steel took the blue much carker than the stainless as expected.




This is the Gun befofe lame blueing the trigger guard.. but scope on and ready for action.



Hope to get air soon.. My tank is out for hydro :( I will do a full report on performace once I get the kinks iron'd out!

Bruce

[rsterne]

Beautiful job on the build, and a real powerhouse.... With the decision to concentrate on cast bullets, a .308 barrel would have given you much more choice in cast bullets.... The 113 gr. Lee FN or 120 gr. RN are great rounds in my DAQ....

Bob

[bitterman]

Beautiful job on the build, and a real powerhouse.... With the decision to concentrate on cast bullets, a .308 barrel would have given you much more choice in cast bullets.... The 113 gr. Lee FN or 120 gr. RN are great rounds in my DAQ....

Bob

Thanks Bob! Yeah hind-sight is always 20/20.... We are in the middle of a custom 75 grain mold from Veral Smith at LDT. that will most likely be the normal shooting and plingin bullet for shot count. The 68 grain mr hollow point are getting about 20 shots @ 950fps. Wish had more of them resized to fit to test. Also Miek will modify the mold posibly for hollow point pins :) to drop close to the 68 grains again. Should be potent for yotes.... and a decent shot count. I will back thigs off for pellets still... We have adjustable stroke and also several hammer springs. 12# 20# 25# and 30# springs. So lots of tuning options. The 12# spring is on the light side... Might look for a 15# 3.5" spring also.

The transfer port was on the small side for max power only being .228 instead of the .250 to .280 we would need for maxpower... But that was not the goal.

As some of you don't know and Bob is eluding to our barrel is a wierd size. This is a .30 that went throught he barrel....



Should have gone a .308 barrel and forgot pellets... but honestly was not expecting this kind of power. I would like to see what it does with a 113 or 120 grain too... bet its going to hit 185-190 fpe... but do I need it..... Not unless I coudl go after deer here....

The 68 grain shoot decent eventhough was a bit large a resize.

I am trying to get a custom lee sizing die to size casting doewn to about .301 (the rcbs customer sizer I sent to Mike was .301) Also the .303 my hollow points are very tight... he had indicated they run .3025 to .3035 outa the mold.

The pellets do shoot well acording to mike so a nice option if I need lead and time will tel but might get a nice shot count at 100 FPE.

Bruce

[rsterne]

My experience has been that both FPE and shot count tend to increase as the weight goes up.... If you are fighting a tight bullet fit in the bore, however, the extra drag of a longer bullet that is too tight might change that.... I still find it just wayyyyyyyy too weird that you got an LW barrel that is NOT .308" bore....

Bob

[bitterman]

My experience has been that both FPE and shot count tend to increase as the weight goes up.... If you are fighting a tight bullet fit in the bore, however, the extra drag of a longer bullet that is too tight might change that.... I still find it just wayyyyyyyy too weird that you got an LW barrel that is NOT .308" bore....

Bob

I asked Mike about that and think I may have found the answer. LW does 2 different depths to rifling abotu .0025 deep and .004 deep. Mike said they recomended the shallower rifling for pellets so that is what he ordred. I expect that the bore is a tight just under .300 maybe a bit smaller with a .005 increase in major diameter. The 2 different ties Mike slugged the barrel there was a .005 difference.. the actual measurement is unknown. Also less rifling passes with the button would result in less wear on the minor diameter. I expect for the pellets to fit and show the rifling it does must be on the tigher size. Also the fact that the .303 un resized mr hollow points fit very very tight.... makes me think we are on the smaller size and this is why te pellets work. If I was going to only shoot pellets I woudl be tempted to get a slight chock on the barrel to ensure a more optimal fit fo the pellets as they come out the barrel. Then order another barrel for .308 ammo... Thinking that might be the best option overall really. Then swap barrel for what I want to shoot, change hammer spring and change stroke.

When Veral gets the slugs, I will ask him to let me know the size for minor and major so I know.

Bruce

[SeanMP]

I asked Mike about that and think I may have found the answer. LW does 2 different depths to rifling abotu .0025 deep and .004 deep. Mike said they recomended the shallower rifling for pellets so that is what he ordred. I expect that the bore is a tight just under .300 maybe a bit smaller with a .005 increase in major diameter. The 2 different ties Mike slugged the barrel there was a .005 difference.. the actual measurement is unknown. Also less rifling passes with the button would result in less wear on the minor diameter. I expect for the pellets to fit and show the rifling it does must be on the tigher size. Also the fact that the .303 un resized mr hollow points fit very very tight.... makes me think we are on the smaller size and this is why te pellets work. If I was going to only shoot pellets I woudl be tempted to get a slight chock on the barrel to ensure a more optimal fit fo the pellets as they come out the barrel. Then order another barrel for .308 ammo... Thinking that might be the best option overall really. Then swap barrel for what I want to shoot, change hammer spring and change stroke.

When Veral gets the slugs, I will ask him to let me know the size for minor and major so I know.

Bruce

Bruce first off let me say that your build is absolutely brilliant! Nice job.

I maybe able to help you out with some of those barrel issues.

Firstly, you said a .303 Mr Hollowpoint was really tight. Was it a .303 British casting? If so thats actually a bigger bullet than a .308.

Looking at your push through it really looks like the leade has some issues. My guess is that there is some displaced metal right at the entrance to the bore which is skewing the results. The indication for that is the grooves that are showing in the rifling imprint. Those should be flat and very shiny on a button barrel.

There is only one fix but it is relatively easy to do. Your going to have to lap out the constriction with a cast lead lap and some compound. I'm going to guess that you should be able to get that bore to .300/.306

[SeanMP]

Rifling imprints.jpg

This is a fairly crappy pic but it gives you the basic idea. These are 30cal. The one on the top is a partially complete and the bottom is a final

[bitterman]

Attachment 958

This is a fairly crappy pic but it gives you the basic idea. These are 30cal. The one on the top is a partially complete and the bottom is a final

Thanks for the comments and help!

Wow that is a huge difference the lapping does.


The Mr Hollow Point pellets were running .3025 to .3035 dropping outa the mold according to Mr Hollow point. He is now resizing them to .300 to match what the JSB and Daystate .303 pellets actual head size. This is the site http://www.mrhollowpoint.com/6743.html Look at the pellets listed for "303 Wolverine and FX Boss" He is now resizing to .300 though.

From what I have seen is guys are measuring those pellets from .299 to .301... mind you not sure if they used gauge blocks to confirm the accuracy of there measuring device so hard to say.

The pellet was actually one that was shot but barely cam out due to issues with the valve when to gun fist went together. There was some issues with the inlet of the barrel. That was fixed before the gun got upto me. Mike using a vise was sending the 50.15 out to 100 yards hitting paint balls every time after scope was zeroed.... I was surprised as I think the bore is oversize for the pellets.. but if it works so we got very very lucky :)

The Mr Hollow points that were shot were ran though the .301 die I custom ordered for a RCBS lubersizor... but Mike had to make a custom top punch as it was deforming things as its too big a re-size was just for testing. I think it could improve accuracy if opened up a little. I got that for mike as he is building one for himself... I am looking for a .301 lee lube and size for a lee press, I will open it up as needed using a drill press and Emory, and then wet dry. Also seen some guys push lead though with compound on it... like they do for fire lapping. Might try that if needed. The 68 grain Mr hollow points re-sized shot the best of the castings we tried at 950fps.. At higher speeds they did not do so well.

I am honestly afraid to do the lead lapping :( Heard of people wrecking barrels. :( Mike is sending Slugs to Veral Smith of LBT for a custom mold to fit the bore. We settled on 75 grains for it... but not started yet sound we could change. I liked the 20 shots with the 68 grain doing 950fps.

Sean are you near Ottawa area? I'm Just south of Ottawa myself.

Bruce

[SeanMP]

Sean are you near Ottawa area? I'm Just south of Ottawa myself.

Ya pretty close actually. Westport is the closest geographical.

Lapping is not terribly scary. It's a very slow steady process and I think if your using a lead lap and a true bore compound there is virtually no risk. Yes guys have mucked things up using aggressive compounds that get embedded in the steel.

[bitterman]

Ya pretty close actually. Westport is the closest geographical.

Lapping is not terribly scary. It's a very slow steady process and I think if your using a lead lap and a true bore compound there is virtually no risk. Yes guys have mucked things up using aggressive compounds that get embedded in the steel.

Thanks, I've got some reading todo. LW supposedly lapped it at the factory so was not looking there... I'm not that Far from you really maybe an hour and a bit drive west from my place.

Bruce