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Thread: .30 cal Disco Double

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  1. #1
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    .30 cal Disco Double

    Over the past few weeks I have been collecting the necessary parts for this new project.... Here is what I have purchased as a starting point.... I bought a Disco main tube and valve, the hammer and gauge block from a PRod, a trigger and guard from an MRod, a Disco Double kit and MRod trigger shim from Lloyd at Air-Gun-Lab, and a Boyd's Blaster stock in Camo from Norm at Discos-R-Us inletted for the Disco Double kit and MRod trigger.... I wanted to start from the best possible components to achieve my goal....



    The main purpose of this project is as a test bed for the new .30 cal barrels that SeanMP and I are having made for the new JSB .30 cal pellets.... These pellets are smaller than the 0.308" standard used by Powderburners, having a head size of only 0.300", so we have designed a new barrel to match.... They will be available in a 25" length to fit on the Disco and allow enough room for a muzzle brake or air stripper to be attached.... The barrels will be 0.50" OD, which will allow their use in a .25 cal MRod as well as a new repeater breech that I have designed and Sean will be making.... The breech will also accept a .25 cal barrel with a 0.50" OD, and make use of the 8-shot .25 cal MRod magazines, both stock for the quarterbore version, and enlarged to .30 cal (with 7 shots) for the bigger caliber.... The magazines will accept pellets or cast bullets up to 0.48" long.... Those can be stabilized in a .30 cal barrel with a 26" twist, which is ideal for the JSB pellets, so that was our choice.... The mandrel had been made, and we will be placing an initial order shortly....

    In terms of potential performance, we're pretty much flying blind here at the moment.... My initial goal was ~850 fps with the 46 gr. JSBs (74 FPE), and while that remains a realistic performance level to get a decent shot count, I'm hoping that during development I may see that power level in .25 cal and about 88 FPE in the .30 cal, but at what pressure remains unknown.... Ideally, I would like to achieve 14 shots (2 clips) with the .30 cal using the Disco Double tube setup.... which would mean 7 shots (1 clip) on a standard Disco.... As the market for quarterbore rifles is likely way larger than for a .30 cal, we are trying to reach a compromise between the two, allowing as many components to be shared as possible.... and also for the minimum changes to Disco components.... It's a given that the valve needs to breathe a lot better, so that will be the place I start.... I will try the PRod hammer (without the extended striker) and my heavy Disco hammer spring, but I doubt they will be up to the job, so we anticipate making a heavier hammer with longer travel, and using a QB hammer spring to move enough air, particularly for the .30 cal.... An RVA will be part of the package, of course....

    The new 7/8" wide, 6" long breech will be designed around the .25 cal MRod magazine, and will incorporate an additional mounting band at the front, located between the trigger and gauge.... This will provide exceptional rigidity for a floating barrel, although a barrel band may also be used if desired.... The top of the breech will be grooved full length for dovetail mounts.... It will be significantly taller than a Disco breech (to allow for the magazine), so for appearance it will incorporate a mount for a 7/8" OD Carbon Fibre shroud and a Hatsan-style air stripper.... The end of the barrel will be threaded, and when the air stripper is tightened against the end of the shroud, it will put it in compression, putting the barrel in tension.... The muzzle blast will be vented out through the stripper, and not into the shroud, so that legality will not be a question in Canada.... For those allowed to have quieter airguns, there will be clearance for a longer 1" OD shroud.... although the barrel tensioning feature will be lost of course.... It is hoped that 0.59" OD barrels will be available for QBs and Sean may even work on a repeater breech for them as well at some future date....

    While we're on the subject, I want to make it clear that I will not be involved in the marketing of these barrels, breeches, and other components other than in doing the design work and prototyping.... Manufacturing things and selling them is Sean's bag, not mine.... so I ask that any inquiries in that regard be addressed to him.... My compensation is solely the satisfaction I get from making things work they way they should.... at which point I move on to the next project.... I have no interest in repetitive operations, nor do I have the time to do them....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Doc Sharptail's Avatar
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    That is a way cool stock, Bob! I'm pretty sure these guys do for the 78 series as well.

    Kind of curious- does the disco gauge block eat much volume?

    Lookin forward to your report...

    Regards,

    Doc Sharptail
    "Ain't No Half Way"

    -S.R.V.

  3. #3
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Over the last couple of days I made the two bolts (.25 and .30 cal), the bolt handle, and machined the bolt slot in the breech.... The bolt design is quite unique, thanks to Sean.... at least I have never seen it before.... It is probeless.... The sealing O-ring is in a groove in the end of the barrel and the bolt slides through it....



    Rather than have either a hollow probe (which loads the pellet by pushing on the base, and the air flows through it).... or a thin extended probe (which loads the pellet by pushing inside the skirt and the air flows around it).... this bolt simply has a flat end.... The key is in the bolt slot.... The bolt pushes on the base of the pellet (or bullet) to load it, and stops with the base or skirt past the barrel port.... It is then withdrawn to clear the barrel port completely, leaving no obstruction to the airflow once in the firing position....



    Sean's original bolt slot design was "T" shaped, the bolt moved past the battery position, was withdrawn and turned down to lock.... We then modified it to a triangular shape, where the bolt handle was pulled down and back on an angle to the locking position.... I then saw a photo of the Crosman Rogue which has a slot shaped like the one in the above photo, and uses the retraction of the bolt to the firing position as a safety interlock (as I understand it).... I adopted that rectangular slot design and Sean's probeless bolt for this rifle.... In addition to having no obstruction to the airflow in the barrel, the bolt handle, once in the firing position, can't pop up on firing.... The bolt in the second photo is shown in the firing position....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Doc Sharptail's Avatar
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    How far does the bolt travel under o-ring tension?
    Seems a common sense work around, provided there isn't too much space between the base of the projectile, and the bolt face.
    There might even be a solution in there somehow, for the loose flopping bolt on cock on open 78 series...

    Regards,

    Doc Sharptail
    "Ain't No Half Way"

    -S.R.V.

  5. #5
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Just a couple of pics of the finished stock.... I'm very pleased with the results....



    It's a Boyd's Blaster in Forest Camo (green, brown, black).... Inletting done by Norm at Discos-R-Us....



    I finished it with 7 coats of Watco Danish Oil, wet sanded (2 x 220, 2 x 400, 2 x 600) and then a final coat of Minwax....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  6. #6
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Just finishing up the stock and have to make a transfer port yet.... the next day or two and I'll blast a few upsized JSBs down the bore for a first test.... Find out if I'm in the ballpark....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  7. #7
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    Ths Disco gauge block is about 1.5" long, so it's about 10cc.... The biggest problem with it is that the hole through it is only 1/8".... The PRod gauge block has about a 3/8" through hole and so doesn't restrict the air entering the valve....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  8. #8
    Senior Member sholo's Avatar
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    Looking (and sounding) pretty slick so far, Bob! I am soooo looking forward to this project!

    Only thing that perplexes me (and just now dawned on me) is that I ordered a .25 cal LW barrel from Eric in 12mm (.472").... Placed the order before all this talk of these new breeches started.

    Hmmm......I wonder if I can bribe Sean into making one fit a 12mm barrel? (just me thinking out loud, Bob...wasn't specifically asking you! )


    Cheers,
    Todd
    Todd

    Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweatty things!

  9. #9
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    The bolt engages the O-ring, slides in about 3/8", and then retracts 1/4".... The MRod uses a smooth bolt with the O-ring in the barrel, and I have adopted it for my Hayabusa and virtually all my new builds.... I find it seals great, and you never have to worry about the bolt length being just perfect to compress the O-ring, which is the hassle when the bolt carries the O-ring and engages a taper like on the Crosman setup.... Also, if the bolt carries the O-ring it doesn't work well when passing through a magazine,, it's prone to damaging the O-ring....

    The distance from the base of the projectile to the bolt face when retracted is just over the diameter of the transfer port, the same as an extended probe bolt.... The difference is, there is no probe in the way of the airflow....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

  10. #10
    Moderator rsterne's Avatar
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    I think Sean is pretty easy to bribe.... *grin*....

    Bob
    Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
    Airsonal: Too many to count!

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